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I’ve often discussed the requirements a woman must have for a long-term, serious OLTR relationship, such as low drama, reasonably low jealousy, sex positivity, a long track record of dating you before she ever becomes an OLTR with near-zero problems, and so on. However, I have not discussed an equally important aspect of OLTR, and that is the requirements you must meet in order to have one. Yes, you as a man have some requirements to meet, or else you should not have an OLTR, and instead just stick with FB’s and/or MLTR’s, which are also fantastic.
-By Caleb Jones
Over the years on this blog, I have seen a lot of readers object to or misunderstand OLTR. Once I explain your requirements for an OLTR, it will explain a lot of these objections and misunderstandings.
OLTR’s are only for older men with higher levels of game.
OLTR’s are hard. OLTR’s are complicated. Managing an OLTR requires strong game, a solid frame, confidence, outcome independence, and a decent amount of experience with women, and not just pick-up experience, but relationship experience as well. A game beginner is not going to have these things. A young man is very unlikely to have these things (he may have some of them, but not all).
Therefore, an OLTR is only for men who are a little older and who have a decent level of game and relationship skill. I’ve said it before, and today I’ll say it more clearly - no man should even think about having an OLTR until he is at least 30 years old. 35 is even better. As I explained here, I don’t consider most modern-day men as full adults until age 34 anyway. (I really hate saying that, but it’s the truth. Western cultural collapse and all that.)
These two requirements, that you are at least a little older and have a stronger level of game and woman experience, answer a lot of objections, questions, and misunderstandings I’ve seen some of you raise regarding OLTR’s. Here’s just a few examples from the last few years:
1. How the hell is a younger couple supposed to do the things you suggest??? Like have a separate residence or whatever??? A younger man shouldn’t be part of a couple. A younger man should not get married. A younger man should not have children. In my strong opinion, a younger man shouldn’t even have a girlfriend, monogamous or not. An OLTR is a girlfriend, thus a younger man should not have one.
Men under 30 should instead spend their time getting laid, having fun, playing round with FB’s and MLTR’s, and focusing on building their businesses. A girlfriend, even an open one like an OLTR, destroys all of that, nor will a younger man have the ability to successfully manage such a relationship. I always cringe whenever I see a guy in his twenties on a blog or message board announce that he has an OLTR or worse, a monogamous girlfriend. I know it’s going to blow up in his face. You don’t want things blowing up in your face when you’re in your twenties. Use that time to be free, have fun, get laid, and get shit done, not have a girlfriend, and certainly not have a wife.
Have a wife in your fucking twenties? Having kids in your fucking twenties? Are you fucking kidding me? I made that mistake when I was a young, stupid, inexperienced, naïve beta male with no real internet and no resources to learn about these things. Learn from my mistake so you don’t make the same one. Don’t have a girlfriend when you’re under 30, OLTR or not. Wait until you’re ideally 35. I never had anything that even looked like an OLTR until I was in my late thirties, by choice.
2. It’s going to be harder to get new FB’s when you have an OLTR because you already have a girlfriend and they’ll know it!!! Yes, the difficulty bar is raised in this area. That’s exactly why you should not have an OLTR until you have very strong game. If you have strong game, this won’t be a big problem. If you have weak or intermediate game, this could be a serious problem, thus you would not have an OLTR until such time as your game gets stronger and you can bring in new FB’s as needed despite the increased difficulty of doing so.
3. It’s going to be harder to keep FB’s around longer because they’ll know you have a girlfriend!!! The easiest solution to this (besides just paying for it, which is certainly an option for older guys) is to try to stick with FB’s who already have boyfriends themselves. I think you should do this anyway, since “taken” FB’s are always the best FB’s to have, regardless of if you have an OLTR or not.
But if you can’t / won’t do this, yeah, some FB’s won’t last as long when they know you’re already taken. That means you should not get into an OLTR until you’ve built up a strong number of FB’s on your roster. Most of these women won’t care that you have a girlfriend/wife now. But if you aren’t experienced enough where you haven’t built up such a roster, you’re probably not experienced enough to have an OLTR yet, and should hold off until you do. And again, acquiring new FB’s won’t be nearly as big of a problem if you are very game experienced, so this shouldn’t be a concern.
4. I might have to pay for sex with side-FB’s if I have an OLTR!!! Yes, you might have to (or chose to) pay hookers or sugar babies as some (or all!) of your FB’s in your OLTR, depending on your situation. You don’t have to, but it’s a perfectly viable option for some men. If you’re an older guy, this shouldn’t be a problem because your income should be at a point where you can easily afford such a thing. If you’re a young dude, you probably can’t afford anything like this, which means this option won’t be available to you, which means your options for side-FB’s are limited. Yet another reason why younger men shouldn’t even mess around with OLTR’s at all.
Therefore, an OLTR is only for men who are a little older and who have a decent level of game and relationship skill. I’ve said it before, and today I’ll say it more clearly - no man should even think about having an OLTR until he is at least 30 years old. 35 is even better. As I explained here, I don’t consider most modern-day men as full adults until age 34 anyway. (I really hate saying that, but it’s the truth. Western cultural collapse and all that.)
These two requirements, that you are at least a little older and have a stronger level of game and woman experience, answer a lot of objections, questions, and misunderstandings I’ve seen some of you raise regarding OLTR’s. Here’s just a few examples from the last few years:
1. How the hell is a younger couple supposed to do the things you suggest??? Like have a separate residence or whatever??? A younger man shouldn’t be part of a couple. A younger man should not get married. A younger man should not have children. In my strong opinion, a younger man shouldn’t even have a girlfriend, monogamous or not. An OLTR is a girlfriend, thus a younger man should not have one.
Men under 30 should instead spend their time getting laid, having fun, playing round with FB’s and MLTR’s, and focusing on building their businesses. A girlfriend, even an open one like an OLTR, destroys all of that, nor will a younger man have the ability to successfully manage such a relationship. I always cringe whenever I see a guy in his twenties on a blog or message board announce that he has an OLTR or worse, a monogamous girlfriend. I know it’s going to blow up in his face. You don’t want things blowing up in your face when you’re in your twenties. Use that time to be free, have fun, get laid, and get shit done, not have a girlfriend, and certainly not have a wife.
Have a wife in your fucking twenties? Having kids in your fucking twenties? Are you fucking kidding me? I made that mistake when I was a young, stupid, inexperienced, naïve beta male with no real internet and no resources to learn about these things. Learn from my mistake so you don’t make the same one. Don’t have a girlfriend when you’re under 30, OLTR or not. Wait until you’re ideally 35. I never had anything that even looked like an OLTR until I was in my late thirties, by choice.
2. It’s going to be harder to get new FB’s when you have an OLTR because you already have a girlfriend and they’ll know it!!! Yes, the difficulty bar is raised in this area. That’s exactly why you should not have an OLTR until you have very strong game. If you have strong game, this won’t be a big problem. If you have weak or intermediate game, this could be a serious problem, thus you would not have an OLTR until such time as your game gets stronger and you can bring in new FB’s as needed despite the increased difficulty of doing so.
3. It’s going to be harder to keep FB’s around longer because they’ll know you have a girlfriend!!! The easiest solution to this (besides just paying for it, which is certainly an option for older guys) is to try to stick with FB’s who already have boyfriends themselves. I think you should do this anyway, since “taken” FB’s are always the best FB’s to have, regardless of if you have an OLTR or not.
But if you can’t / won’t do this, yeah, some FB’s won’t last as long when they know you’re already taken. That means you should not get into an OLTR until you’ve built up a strong number of FB’s on your roster. Most of these women won’t care that you have a girlfriend/wife now. But if you aren’t experienced enough where you haven’t built up such a roster, you’re probably not experienced enough to have an OLTR yet, and should hold off until you do. And again, acquiring new FB’s won’t be nearly as big of a problem if you are very game experienced, so this shouldn’t be a concern.
4. I might have to pay for sex with side-FB’s if I have an OLTR!!! Yes, you might have to (or chose to) pay hookers or sugar babies as some (or all!) of your FB’s in your OLTR, depending on your situation. You don’t have to, but it’s a perfectly viable option for some men. If you’re an older guy, this shouldn’t be a problem because your income should be at a point where you can easily afford such a thing. If you’re a young dude, you probably can’t afford anything like this, which means this option won’t be available to you, which means your options for side-FB’s are limited. Yet another reason why younger men shouldn’t even mess around with OLTR’s at all.
5. You can’t soft next her once you move in with her as an OLTR!!! How the hell is that supposed to work???
Correct, as I’ve said many times, you instantly destroy your option to soft next a woman the instant you move in with her. It is the greatest disadvantage to living with a woman.
This means you’re going to have to delve into your relationship toolkit and use other options for conflict management. If you’re a young or inexperienced guy, you’ll have no such toolkit to draw upon. If you’re an older guy, you’ll have all kinds of ideas to work with, and a wealth of relationship experience from which will help you out in your more complicated relationship. I have a lot more to say about relationship management within a live-in relationship a little later, but the point is that a young guy or inexperienced guy has no business whatsoever living with a woman, regardless of monogamous or not. That’s just asking for trouble.
(And as usual, if you like drama or "don't mind drama," then feel free to ignore everything I'm saying and do whatever you want. If you don't mind regular drama in your life, you're probably reading the wrong blog anyway.) I could go on, but you get the point. The next time you have questions or objections about having an OLTR (a live-in OLTR or standard OLTR), remember that OLTR’s are only for older men who have stronger levels of game, and then see if your question answers itself. It likely will. One last thing… A lot of you seem to think that OLTR is somehow “better” than MLTR. That you’re not at the highest level of Alphaness or badassery if you don’t have an OLTR and have MLTR’s instead. That is incorrect.
OLTR’s are not better than MLTR’s. OLTR’s are simply for men who wish to pair-bond. If you don’t want to pair-bond, or if you only want monogamy in a serious relationship, then you shouldn’t get an OLTR, shouldn’t think about getting an OLTR, should ignore everything I say about OLTR’s, and for fuck’s sake, shouldn’t leave comments bashing or disputing OLTR’s. If you don’t want an OLTR, that’s great, don’t have one. Stick with MLTR’s instead, which are just as good as OLTR’s, if not better in terms of masculine freedom. MLTR’s are just as good and just as “Alpha” as OLTR’s, if not more so. There is nothing “bad” about having MLTR’s for the rest of your life. MLTR’s are awesome. OLTR is simply an option for those men who wish to pair-bond. That’s it. They’re not “better” than MLTR’s.
Also, monogamy doesn't work, as I've proven perhaps thousands of times in my writings. Long-term monogamy doesn't work at all, and I've already pointed out the numerous problems with serial monogamy both here and here. But if you still want to somehow enforce absolute sexual monogamy in a serious relationship (good luck with that) because your ego just can't take the possibility that your partner might have sex with another guy at some point, then great, don't have an OLTR. That's fine. You don't value long-term happiness as much as I do, but that's still your choice and it's your life. Since you're clearly never going to have an OLTR, don't muddy the conversation with objections about something you're never going to do anyway.
So please, if you're pro-monogamy or anti-pair-bonding, that's wonderful, but for the love of god, if you can’t imagine you ever having an OLTR, please avoid bitching about OLTR’s, commenting about OLTR’s, asking stupid questions about OLTR’s that are actually objections in disguise, or talking about how terrible OLTR's sound to you. When I talk about OLTR’s, I’m only talking to men who might actually want OLTR’s, not you. You should instead focus on the other relationship management topics I discuss, which apply to FB’s and MLTR’s, which are also awesome. A lot of conversations in the comments on this blog are blown to hell by guys bitching about OLTR's who will clearly never have an OLTR no matter what data they learn about it. That's that's technically allowed here since I'm for free speech as long as the five rules are followed, but it's really not fair to the guys who are interested in OLTR.
I hope that sounds reasonable. Cool? Cool. So there you have it. OLTR’s are only for men who want them, and only men who are older and have a stronger level of game. I hope that clears a few things up.
Want over 35 hours of how-to podcasts on how to improve your woman life and financial life? Want to be able to coach with me twice a month? Want access to hours of technique-based video and audio? The SMIC Program is a monthly podcast and coaching program where you get access to massive amounts of exclusive, members-only Alpha 2.0 content as soon as you sign up, and you can cancel whenever you want. Click here for the details.
This means you’re going to have to delve into your relationship toolkit and use other options for conflict management. If you’re a young or inexperienced guy, you’ll have no such toolkit to draw upon. If you’re an older guy, you’ll have all kinds of ideas to work with, and a wealth of relationship experience from which will help you out in your more complicated relationship. I have a lot more to say about relationship management within a live-in relationship a little later, but the point is that a young guy or inexperienced guy has no business whatsoever living with a woman, regardless of monogamous or not. That’s just asking for trouble.
(And as usual, if you like drama or "don't mind drama," then feel free to ignore everything I'm saying and do whatever you want. If you don't mind regular drama in your life, you're probably reading the wrong blog anyway.) I could go on, but you get the point. The next time you have questions or objections about having an OLTR (a live-in OLTR or standard OLTR), remember that OLTR’s are only for older men who have stronger levels of game, and then see if your question answers itself. It likely will. One last thing… A lot of you seem to think that OLTR is somehow “better” than MLTR. That you’re not at the highest level of Alphaness or badassery if you don’t have an OLTR and have MLTR’s instead. That is incorrect.
OLTR’s are not better than MLTR’s. OLTR’s are simply for men who wish to pair-bond. If you don’t want to pair-bond, or if you only want monogamy in a serious relationship, then you shouldn’t get an OLTR, shouldn’t think about getting an OLTR, should ignore everything I say about OLTR’s, and for fuck’s sake, shouldn’t leave comments bashing or disputing OLTR’s. If you don’t want an OLTR, that’s great, don’t have one. Stick with MLTR’s instead, which are just as good as OLTR’s, if not better in terms of masculine freedom. MLTR’s are just as good and just as “Alpha” as OLTR’s, if not more so. There is nothing “bad” about having MLTR’s for the rest of your life. MLTR’s are awesome. OLTR is simply an option for those men who wish to pair-bond. That’s it. They’re not “better” than MLTR’s.
Also, monogamy doesn't work, as I've proven perhaps thousands of times in my writings. Long-term monogamy doesn't work at all, and I've already pointed out the numerous problems with serial monogamy both here and here. But if you still want to somehow enforce absolute sexual monogamy in a serious relationship (good luck with that) because your ego just can't take the possibility that your partner might have sex with another guy at some point, then great, don't have an OLTR. That's fine. You don't value long-term happiness as much as I do, but that's still your choice and it's your life. Since you're clearly never going to have an OLTR, don't muddy the conversation with objections about something you're never going to do anyway.
So please, if you're pro-monogamy or anti-pair-bonding, that's wonderful, but for the love of god, if you can’t imagine you ever having an OLTR, please avoid bitching about OLTR’s, commenting about OLTR’s, asking stupid questions about OLTR’s that are actually objections in disguise, or talking about how terrible OLTR's sound to you. When I talk about OLTR’s, I’m only talking to men who might actually want OLTR’s, not you. You should instead focus on the other relationship management topics I discuss, which apply to FB’s and MLTR’s, which are also awesome. A lot of conversations in the comments on this blog are blown to hell by guys bitching about OLTR's who will clearly never have an OLTR no matter what data they learn about it. That's that's technically allowed here since I'm for free speech as long as the five rules are followed, but it's really not fair to the guys who are interested in OLTR.
I hope that sounds reasonable. Cool? Cool. So there you have it. OLTR’s are only for men who want them, and only men who are older and have a stronger level of game. I hope that clears a few things up.
Want over 35 hours of how-to podcasts on how to improve your woman life and financial life? Want to be able to coach with me twice a month? Want access to hours of technique-based video and audio? The SMIC Program is a monthly podcast and coaching program where you get access to massive amounts of exclusive, members-only Alpha 2.0 content as soon as you sign up, and you can cancel whenever you want. Click here for the details.