4 Mistakes Older Men Make When Pursuing Younger Women


first date advice, first online date, online dating advice, meaning of an open relationship, alpha male traits

Younger women is a topic I haven’t discussed here in a while. Bad me. Though I still date women my age (and older!), younger women have become such a normal and regular part of my life, I no longer consider it something unique or interesting enough to talk about. Again, bad me.

Since we’re talking about much younger women here, this article is really geared towards men over age 30 or so. If you’re much younger than 30 you’re welcome to read on if you’re curious, since this is something that will be affecting you in a few years.

Instead of talking about what to do to attract and date much younger women, something I’ve talked about before, today I’ll discuss what not to do.

Definitions

As usual, we need to get our definitions straight. By “much younger women” I’m usually talking about VYW, which I define as women between the age of 18 and 23. There are three types of VYW:

  • Type 1s, VYW who are disgusted at the thought of dating any man older than about four or five years older than they are, regardless of how good-looking or confident the older men might be.
  • Type 2s, VYW who are extremely turned on by much older men, and are usually turned off by, and bored with, men in their own age range.
  • Type 3s, VYW who don’t really care about a man’s age and don’t make a judgment about it one way or the other. However, dating much older men is still often out of their comfort zone, not because they aren’t interested, but because they’ve never done it before.

By “older men” I’m talking about men between the ages of 30 and 49 or so, though men in their 50s who have followed my advice and taken care of themselves physically certainly apply also.

The older man / younger women stuff also generally applies to any man who is hitting up any woman of legal age who is more than 10 years younger than he is. (Since men hitting up women within one to nine years younger is considered “normal” by society in most cases.)  So in a way, a 45 year old man working with a 26 year old woman would apply here, even though she’s technically not a VYW.

Here then are the four mistakes men most often make when trying to attract younger women.

Mistake 1: Trying To Act Younger

This is the granddaddy of them all. All the time I’m running into guys who tell me things like “I’m 36, but I look 30, so I tell women I’m 29.” Less often, though still regularly, I see guys in their 30s and even 40s who try to dress, act, and talk like men in their 20s. In extreme cases these guys invade the clubs or college campuses to hit on younger women where they often look woefully out of place.

While there are always unusual exceptions to every rule, this approach does not work. It fails for a very simple reason: The VYW most likely to have sex with you are the Type 2s, which are women who like much older men and don’t like younger men their own age. Being an older man, but acting like a younger man (or worse, lying about your age) doesn’t make any sense. You are destroying the very thing these Type 2s crave.

They don’t want a 38 year-old guy who acts like he’s 27. They want a 38 year-old guy who acts like a decently cool, non-creepy, 38 year-old guy. That will turn them on. A lot.

Trust me, when you act your age, but are cool and non-creepy, Type 2 VYW are literally the easiest women to have sex with quickly. I’ve been doing this for years, and to this day I’m still surprised how fast and easy it is (once you find those Type 2s of course).

It’s true that if you’re really good looking or have extremely strong game you can overcome the fact that you’re acting younger and score with those Type 2s anyway, but why create the extra work for yourself? Dumb.

In most cases I’ve seen, and I’ve seen a lot, the reason guys try to act younger is because they’re trying to have sex with the Type 1s. I’ve got news for you. If you’re over 30, you will never, and I mean never sleep with a Type 1 VYW. Ever. (Unless she’s a hooker and you’re paying her). Type 1s are horrified at the thought of having sex with men much older than they are. “Ew! It’s like fucking my dad! Gross!”

This is not ASD…no technique will bust through this. It’s simply a very strong, visceral preference, often based on the age of her parents which obviously you have zero control over. Even if you’ve think you’ve had sex with a reluctant Type 1 VYW before, it’s not because she was a Type 1…she was a reluctant Type 3. If she was a Type 1 you would have never gotten her pants off.

The good news is that the world is filled with super hot Type 2s and Type 3s, and I’m talking about what most men would consider 9s and 10s. These women will be more than happy to sleep with a much older man. So all this acting younger shit isn’t necessary.

I am the exact opposite of these act-younger guys. Whenever I go out on a first date with a VYW, not only do I not act young, but I will often play up the older man aspect. I know that since she’s agreed to a date with me, she’s not a Type 1, so she’s either a Type 2 (in which case fast sex will be very easy as long as I don’t majorly screw anything up) or a Type 3 (in which case my odds are a little lower and a little more comfort-building time will be required).

So I dress a little classier, talk a little slower, drop the energy level down just a little, talk more about the wisdom I’ve learned over the years, and exhibit other older-guy behaviors. In other words, all the things you would never do if you were on a date with an over-33 woman (because then she’ll shove you in Make Him Wait zone).

Mistake Number 2: Acting Like A Creepy Older Man, i.e. Being Horny Or Sexual Too Fast

One of the greatest pieces of seduction advice I’ve ever heard was to “risk creepy”. This means that when you’re escalating on a woman, you need to push the envelope. Even if you think she might consider what you’re doing “creepy”, you need to go for it. That doesn’t mean you cross the line, but it does mean you are very aggressive, and err on the side of “creepy” rather than “nice guy”.

This is very, very good advice, I do this myself, and I recommend it to all men across the board…

…except older guys trying to hit up much younger women. This is the one exception to the rule. If you’re older and she’s much younger, you need to be non-creepy. If you start talking about how hot her boobs are or tell her how you “can’t wait to get her back to your place”, she’s going to vanish fast, even if she’s a Type 2.

Younger women, even Type 2s, are hypersensitive about creepy older men, as well they should be (for their own safety reasons). Instead of being a creepy older guy, you need to be a confident, safe older guy. Focus more on being confident, outcome independent, non-reactive, and classy. If you think a move might be considered creepy, don’t do it, especially if you’re talking over texts, online, or in a public place, and/or if you have not established clear rapport yet. Even if you have, be careful.

I see way too many older guys who do have chances with younger women completely blow it by being too creepy, too verbally sexual, way too fast.

Mistake Number 3: Not Paying Attention To Personal Appearance

I’ve already addressed this point before, including in one of the links above, so I’m just going to summarize it here.

Some older guys think they can wing it with their personal appearance and look just like a normal, every day guy just like they did back when they were 25. These guys dress like nerds, have hair and grooming that look like crap, and worse, are often way too skinny or fat.

Back when you were 25, sure. You could dress like crap and not worry about your hair or your clothing too much, and still probably get laid. But if you’re 44 years old hitting up 21 year-old women, I’m sorry, but you’re going to have to step it up a little. Being fat, or having hair grow out of the side of your neck, or dressing in styles that were outdated 20 years ago might be perfectly okay for provider-hunting women your age, but it won’t be okay for the younger ones.

You must take care of your physical appearance more than you did when you were a younger dude. This includes your body and clothing. I’ve made numerous posts about this lately, so click around this blog and take a look at a few if you have not read them yet.

Now look. This does not mean you need to look like George Clooney. I sure as hell don’t, and really didn’t back when I was balder and fatter. But it does mean you need to pay attention to your body, grooming, and fashion and place a higher priority on these things if dating much younger women is something you’re interested in.

By the way, I think society downplays the awesome superpowers a man has when he’s both older and physically attractive. If you’re well over age 35 and you’re still decent looking, you can pull off some pretty amazing things…things that could never be done by younger men, or men your age who look like typical, dumpy, married beta males.

Good-looking older men really do rule the roost in a very real way. I’m quite serious about this.

Mistake Number 4: Being Limited By Your Own Societal Programming

Some older guys who would really like to date younger women, and be good for them, stop themselves because they have thoughts like…

  • I shouldn’t date a woman that young. It’s just not right.
  • No woman that young would ever be attracted to a man my age.
  • Everyone will think I’m shallow if I dated a woman that young.
  • A relationship with a woman that young would never work. We’re in completely different places in life.

These are all thoughts coming directly from Societal Programming. As such, these thoughts are all bullshit. I shall tackle each one:

I shouldn’t date a woman that young. It’s just not right.

There is absolutely nothing wrong, immoral, or unethical about dating a much younger woman provided these three things are true:

1. She is of legal age of consent where you both live.

2. The relationship is 100% consensual on her part.

3. You are always 100% honest with her, and are not lying to her or leading her on.

If you’re being completely, 100% honest with her, and she’s willing, and she’s legal, go for it. Date all the younger women you want. There is nothing wrong or evil or immoral about it.

Only when one of those three items above are not true do we start having serious problems. So always check ID, always be honest, always make sure it’s consensual, and be rewarded with a clear conscience.

No woman that young would ever be attracted to a man my age.

Ohhhhhh, wrongo! There are millions of younger women out there who are dying for a confident, non-creepy, much older man to sweep them off their feet. It’s all over the place, and I’m living proof of this, as are many other older guys in the manosphere.

I estimate that at least 15% of younger women are Type 2s. Trust me, these women have a rough time. They sit in class all day long fantasizing about having sex with their 45 year-old algebra teacher, but they can’t tell any of their family or their girlfriends because of the ridicule they’d receive. These gals hope beyond hope that someday they can find a (non-creepy!) much older man to fulfill the fantasies they’ve had all their lives.

True stat from my life: Just under 50% of all the women I’ve had sex with since I turned 35 years old were age 18 to 23. I’m almost 42 years old now and this has not let up one bit.

Believe me, those women are out there.

Everyone will think I’m shallow if I dated a woman that young.

Sadly, there is some truth to this one. Many over-33 women are going to be utterly furious at you. Men their age dating younger gals is the biggest threat to these women, and many of them can’t emotionally handle it. Other men your age, who are married to old, overweight, nonsexual wives may also be upset. (Gee…I wonder why.)

I have two responses to this. The first one is…so what? Outcome independence. If some forty-something shrew glares at you when you walk down the street with your 20 year-old MLTR, that’s her problem, not yours. She’s more than welcome to go have sex with a 20 year-old guy, and her forty-something girlfriends will give her high-fives and talk about how independent and liberated she is. So fuck ‘em. It’s all hypocrisy and bullshit Societal Programming anyway.

The second answer to this is that no one said you need to get serious with these women. If you simply want a younger woman as an occasional FB, go ahead. Getting into a super duper serious relationship with an 18 year-old probably isn’t a great idea anyway, be it monogamous or open. So don’t over think this stuff. Date younger women in whatever capacity you desire. (Just make sure you don’t lie to them or lead them on…remember our three rules above.)

A relationship with a woman that young would never work. We’ll be in completely different places in life.

First, remember what I just said. You can date younger women, but you don’t have to get super duper serious with them. Keeping things casual with these women is perfectly fine (as long as you’re honest with them!). Most women this age aren’t wanting super serious relationships anyway. As I’ve talked about before, when a woman is between the ages of 18 and 23, she considers that play time, not serious time.

That being said, I can tell you from vast experience that “being in different places in life” has absolutely nothing to do with how happy a man and woman will be in a relationship, provided the man and woman are attracted to each other and have compatible personalities. If those two things are covered, the “being in different places in life” doesn’t matter at all. Here are a few random examples from my life over the past 7-8 years:

1. The longest consistent relationship I have ever had with a woman outside of my nine-year marriage was an almost five-year relationship with a woman I met when she was 19 that lasted until she was 24. She was a FB for a long time, then I later upgraded her to MLTR.

2. One of the most mentally rewarding relationships I ever had was with a woman I dated for about 2 years, while she was 19 and then 20. She was extremely intelligent and amazingly mature for her age, and we had many long, detailed, philosophical discussions that were the equivalent level of discourse as when I date a woman in her 40s.

3. I have had several MLTRs or FBs who were 20 to 23 years old, who lived in her own homes by themselves, owned her own cars, had their own full-time careers, did not have any kids, and paid 100% of all their own bills with zero help from family, government, or ex’s.

While this is certainly not the norm for that age range, there are many women out there like this. I have really been blown away by the quality of many younger women out there. “Younger woman” does not necessarily mean “dumb bimbo”.

(And yes, many younger women are the opposite, and are indeed dumb bimbos. Great. Keep those at the FB level. They can be fun too. Some of my most fun FBs were in the young dumb bimbo category. They’re wonderful.)

Lastly, don’t forget that just because you date younger women does not mean you can’t keep dating older women too. I have a woman in my life right now who is 44 years old, and she’s friggin’ fantastic. Unless you choose to live a monogamous lifestyle (cough! puke!), you can date women of all ages, younger and older, and probably should. No reason to limit yourself to one or the other.


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  1. BD,

    A few questions on another great post:

    1) When you date the type 2s, you say you overstress the age difference and go out of your way to not look like a horndog, but do you change the conversation structure? IOW, do you still talk about her dating history for the last 6 months and then her sexual likes / dislikes, etc (your usual pattern)? How sexual do you get with the young ones given you don’t want to creep them out?

    2) Do you find a difference b/w women 18-24 and 25-30 in their relationship expectations and their willingness to engage in an open relationship or the length of time they are willing to stay in one? I’m thinking that you tailor your overall game a little differently when they are above 24 but still in their 20s.

    3) How are you going to deal with the 33+ contingent when out of necessity you’ll have to in your late 40s and 50s? My guess is that quick sex will just become rarer as you age as longer courtships are part of the process. Also, I wonder how open 33+ women will be to the offer you present them when you get older. My point with this is that it seems that what makes the Poly lifestyle possible is the fact that girls in their 20s but especially between 18-24 are in no rush to settle down. Its their openness, which declines with age, that makes the poly lifestyle possible. Hefner is constantly doing this with 20-something women. But he’s Hefner, so he was able to push this to his 80s. But for the rest of us? Anyway, its amazing what you’ve been able to do so far. I’m curious about going forward though.

  2. 1) When you date the type 2s, you say you overstress the age difference and go out of your way to not look like a horndog, but do you change the conversation structure? IOW, do you still talk about her dating history for the last 6 months and then her sexual likes / dislikes, etc (your usual pattern)? How sexual do you get with the young ones given you don’t want to creep them out?

    I still talk about sex and do all the usual stuff. I just dial it down a little. I don’t push the envelope in any way. If she seems like she doesn’t want to talk about it, I’ll relent and talk about something else (whereas if she’s over age 23 I will push it and get her to talk about it anyway).

    I let her guide me as to how sexual (or not) she wishes to become in conversation, rather than forcefully taking charge of the conversation as I usually do. But I will still attempt all the usual sexual talk, etc.

    2) Do you find a difference b/w women 18-24 and 25-30 in their relationship expectations and their willingness to engage in an open relationship or the length of time they are willing to stay in one?

    Yes, but only very generally and there are many exceptions to the rule.

    Speaking IN GENERAL, younger women get into open relationships faster and easier but tend to be more dramatic and jealous in those relationships. IN GENERAL older women are the opposite; they are a little more reluctant to get into an open relationship and require a little more patience and hand-holding during the initial phases, but once they’re in the relationship they have an easier time of it and tend to enjoy it more. Trust me, most women in their 30s are very tired of “relationships as usual”, even if they don’t realize it.

    But again, there are many, many exceptions to both those generalizations.

    I’m thinking that you tailor your overall game a little differently when they are above 24 but still in their 20s.

    Actually I don’t. In terms of creating FB/MLTR relationships, I don’t do anything differently from women age 18 to about age 27 or 28. Once I get to age 28-29 then I may make small calibrations based on what I said above.

    3) How are you going to deal with the 33+ contingent when out of necessity you’ll have to in your late 40s and 50s?

    I already deal with them now. Like I said, I have a woman in my life right now who is 44. Working on another who is 34. There’s a third woman who’s 41 I have my eye on. No problem.

    Just follow rule number one: Don’t COLD APPROACH women over age 33. You can DATE women over 33, that’s perfecly fine, you just can’t cold approach them. That means if you want women over 33 you should meet them within your social circle instead of daygame or on a dating site.

    My guess is that quick sex will just become rarer as you age as longer courtships are part of the process. Also, I wonder how open 33+ women will be to the offer you present them when you get older. My point with this is that it seems that what makes the Poly lifestyle possible is the fact that girls in their 20s but especially between 18-24 are in no rush to settle down. Its their openness, which declines with age, that makes the poly lifestyle possible. Hefner is constantly doing this with 20-something women. But he’s Hefner, so he was able to push this to his 80s. But for the rest of us? Anyway, its amazing what you’ve been able to do so far. I’m curious about going forward though.

    “Women in their 30s won’t agree do open relationships” is a myth, as I pointed out in Excuse #42 right here. They do, and as I said above they are often happier once they’re in one than younger women.

    In terms of speed to sex, you’re right, it will take more time for women over 33 assuming you are also over age 33. No getting around that.

    In terms of my age and getting older, when I was in my 30s, there were guys who said, “Well, yeah, you can do all this stuff now…but I’d like to see you do all this stuff when you’re in your 40s!” Well, I’m almost 42 and there has been no difference whatsoever, both in the relationships I have and the age of the women I date. Honestly, the only difference is that the women I date tend to be even hotter than before.

    It will be the same when I’m 45. When I’m 50, I may have to push my game up to women in their early to mid 20s, which is fine. Hopefully I’ll be in an OLTR by then so it will be much less of an issue. (Also, I have slowly started to gravitate away from women under 21, but I’ve been doing that by choice and preference, not because I had to.)

    I know plenty of men well into their 50s who have relationships like this, both with much younger women and women over 33. It isn’t as difficult as Societal Programming teaches, provided you’re doing everything right.

  3. Yeah I definitely have been guilty of #1 but recently I’ve started to tell the truth about my age. Last night I bumped into a couple of girls I was involved with last year (20 & 22) and told both of them my real age (37). They both said they were surprised but it wouldn’t stop them dating me again. The 20 year-old (solid 8 with a great ass) actually seemed a little turned on to learn I’m older than she thought and even admitted she’s getting a little annoyed with her monogamous boyfriend (23) and if they did split up would I still be interested. I still need to lie on the dating sites though to get round their stupid age restrictions.

  4. Out of curiosity, in this digital world – I know that I personally hear a lot about “catfishing”. Is this a serious problem any of you have run into? Or, like a decent amount of “issues”, is it a media driven agenda?

    Good-looking older men really do rule the roost in a very real way. I’m quite serious about this. – Good thing I’m going to age graciously. :)

  5. Out of curiosity, in this digital world – I know that I personally hear a lot about “catfishing”. Is this a serious problem any of you have run into? Or, like a decent amount of “issues”, is it a media driven agenda?

    I meet women on very quick, casual, cheap first dates and spend almost zero time witht them “online”. Once in real life you can figure out if she’s real or fake pretty quick. I’ve never had a problem.

    Good thing I’m going to age graciously.

    Keep taking vitamins!

  6. As an intelligent older male, what do you suggest fluff talking about? Most women under 30 (even if college educated) are dumb as rocks and convo can be challenging. Or do you suggest sticking to the younger women (types 2 and 4 obviously) who display uncommon smarts/intellectual curiosity?

  7. “In terms of speed to sex, you’re right, it will take more time for women over 33 assuming you are also over age 33. No getting around that.”
    Interesting. I’m a little bit older than you BD, and certainly not as experienced or expert as you in these matters, but I seem to find that the over 33 crowd are as fast to sex as the best of them, provided I’m doing this through social circle or a warm approach that is status-enhanced or social-proofed to some degree (with other colder approaches I totally agree, waste of time, with one situational exception I can sometimes exploit that is somewhat unique to my location and status).
    I suppose it could be my approaches are actually warmer than I think and these women already have the hots for me. Do you experience a lot of variability in this or is it a pretty hard and fast rule with you regarding speed to sex and over 33? If you do see variability do you have a hunch as to the causes?

  8. As an intelligent older male, what do you suggest fluff talking about? Most women under 30 (even if college educated) are dumb as rocks and convo can be challenging.

    The same things I talk about with older women. In general my first-date conversation flows from random stuff (safe topics like family, work, etc), to her past relationships, to sex. This is regardless of the woman’s age.

    Or do you suggest sticking to the younger women (types 2 and 4 obviously) who display uncommon smarts/intellectual curiosity?

    Nope. That would be screening and I don’t screen. Feel free to screen for more intelligent women if you wish, but I would never do that. I want to have sex with hot chicks…categorizing the relationship based on her intellect comes later.

    I seem to find that the over 33 crowd are as fast to sex as the best of them, provided I’m doing this through social circle or a warm approach

    Yes, I’ve said many times that you can sleep with over-33s very fast if you exclusively use social circle game to find them. I’ve done this often.

    When I say slower-sex, I’m talking about cold approach with over-33s, namely online game and daygame.

  9. BD, I just clicked the link and read your old post about not screening women.
    Maybe an important factor is missing from that discussion — a reason why guys are inclined to “screen” potential lovers:

    Maybe most of us guys have been brainwashed to anticipate that as soon as we have sex with a woman, she will expect the two of us to have some ongoing exclusive relationship, and most of us guys have no training about how to finesse that expectation, and we’re too ready to feel guilty (and/or worried about losing a lover) if she is upset because we are not going along with her expectations.

    I think Robert Green (No More Mr. Nice Guy) says many men are afraid to start anything with a woman, because many men are confused about their options on how to end things with a woman (without undue guilt, regret, etc.).

    BD, I write this to you not so I can say ‘Aha, BD isn’t always perfect!’, but rather to solicit your comments on this point, because I bet you’ve got some great advice about this.

  10. That’s a little off-topic for this post, but if a man suffered from that condition, he needs to get his head straight fast, since it’s the opposite of reality. Most women under 33 don’t want to leap into a serious exclusive relationship after having sex with a new guy. This is why the vast majority of monogamous relationships are initiated by the man, not the woman.

  11. 3 years ago being just over 30 I pulled an 18 y.o. that didn’t last because of my beta days and her hypergamy. Now 3 years later, I have another 18 year old throwing me IOIs, discussing her past flings, inviting me to hang out with strange excuses.

    She asked about my past girls and I just told her: “Well it didn’t work with the last one. She probably was too young. By the way which year are you? 95? Oh well she was 94, I thought you were in the same age but you are younger.”

    It always has worked well for me to show them I have already been with someone 13 years younger and hint that I won’t ever do that again … but just hinting cause they usually think “I’m gonna prove to him that not all 18 year old chicks are the same”

  12. And I have to add I don’t look for these women. It’s not that I’m specially interested in dating them. But they have something, call it youth, lack of baggage, freshness of spirit and I am really enjoying it although sometimes it can be a little strange when their lack of matureness shows up.

    As OP I never play the young guy act. I never lie about my age and I don’t care about age gap. They can become crazy at any age so it’s better to take them while they still are fun.

  13. This post is a custom tailored suit because I’m 29, and that’s great for me.

    You mentioned in a older post that VYW2 are only the 20%, so following your logic on Mistake 1, I’d rather ask myself: why complicating things to give VYW2 what they crave (an alpha older man) when I can give THE OTHER 80% what they crave; an also confident, sexy, strong, FUN, alpha man but with a younger vibe? Because I know I can do this on my 30’s. My dad is 62 years old and you can’t see a single gray hair in his head, same with my grandpa until he was 70. So I can relate to those guys who tells you that they feel young and have a young vibe (and of course are not clowns). I agree on that logic but once you hit 40’s and even then…

    Also, I think that the term “older guy” is ambiguous, I’ll be 30 in October and I don’t see myself as an older guy and there is a clear difference between me and a 60 year old guy with shitty genetics. I don’t like the two categories: Younger men under 30 and older men from 30 to 80, every decade must be studied separately, by the way, what decade in you opinion is “the golden decade for success with women” considering you take care of all important factors the same? (health, money, game, etc). My bet is the 30’s.

    And, what’s wrong with men on their 30’s in the club scene? I payed my career as a barman and men in their 30’s don’t look ridiculous in a club, they’re the people that looks more confident, attractive and with higher status than all those guys in their 20’s that can’t even afford a bottle or are to shitty scared to talk to girls and also look more ridiculous because getting drunk is all they care about.

    PUA Brian Kinney

  14. why complicating things to give VYW2 what they crave (an alpha older man) when I can give THE OTHER 80% what they crave; an also confident, sexy, strong, FUN, alpha man but with a younger vibe?

    The simple answer is because Type 1s aren’t going to fuck you at all, ever, no matter how good you are, and those make up at least 25%-30% of VYW.

    So what makes sense to me is to do the opposite of what you’re doing…calibrate my game for the type 2s and type 3s, not the type 1s and 3s.

    Also, I think that the term “older guy” is ambiguous, I’ll be 30 in October and I don’t see myself as an older guy and there is a clear difference between me and a 60 year old guy with shitty genetics.

    Agree. I should probably break down the different age ranges for men more specifically on future posts.

    by the way, what decade in you opinion is “the golden decade for success with women” considering you take care of all important factors the same? (health, money, game, etc). My bet is the 30′s.

    Close. It’s late 30s. I think a man peaks for that stuff at around age 37.

    Assuming he hasn’t let himself get fat or dumpy, at age 37 a man is older, which means he’s confident and has achieved some things, but he’s not yet “old”, and still young enough be very attractive and very fit. Style used to call it “old enough to do it right but still young enough to do it often.”

    My goal for my physical appearance is to look as close as possible to age 37 for the rest of my life. I don’t want to look 25…I’ve never wanted to look 25…I want to look 37.

    And, what’s wrong with men on their 30′s in the club scene?

    A good looking guy who is 32 would probably be fine. I was talking more about dudes in their 40s (or 30s who look like 40s) who look very out of place there. Like you said, there are more than two categories.

  15. BD you estimate that at least 15% of VYW are Type 2’s. In my experience it’s even higher than that, perhaps up to 30%. I can only think of one VYW ever that turned me down on age and I’ve been dating VYW almost exclusively since I was 25. And even the one that said no still seemed to want something from me because she continued to text me for a few weeks.

    Interesting too that you reckon 37 to be the best age for success with women. I would tend to agree – the interest I get from VYW has never been higher (thanks mainly to BD advice). In fact the 8 I mentioned in my earlier post is easily the hottest woman I’ve ever attracted and we first got together on my 37th birthday last year.

  16. BD you estimate that at least 15% of VYW are Type 2′s. In my experience it’s even higher than that, perhaps up to 30%.

    You might be right. It could be that high. I don’t think so, because over-age-35 guys who are very good at attracting much younger women may get a skewed perception of how many Type 2s there are out there.

    Also, based on my experience, you’ll probably be able to meet more Type 2s via daygame rather than online game, since online women’s shields are up a little higher. Most of my experience is online game, but when I did daygame my VYW results were quite good. So if your primary method is daygame, you may be hitting percentages well higher than 15%.

    Also remember that if you have very solid game and look good, many Type 3s will appear to you as Type 2s.

  17. “My goal for my physical appearance is to look as close as possible to age 37 for the rest of my life.”

    Good luck with that, my goal is to look as young as I can while I can and I have solid knowledge to achieve that. Here’s my way to say than you for all your help, is simply the best of the best, you’re a man of reliable data so here you can do your search: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/

    1.Aloe Vera: The plant of immortality and Cleopatra’s secret. Please use organic Aloe Vera it is easy to extract the gel inside the plant.
    2. Cocoa (no sugar): The Best Natural Anti-Aging Drink, green tea is the second best and you can drink both for best results.
    3. The man’s best friends: L-Arginine, Maca and Horny Goat Weed.
    4. Omega-3s: To share a really healthy heart.
    5. Red wine: Not everything is so hard.

    Being fat always adds years to your appearance, And I have to tell you that at least for a while until you lose those extra pounds the paleolithic diet is tha shiznit, besides nothing more alpha than eating just raw vegetables fruits and meat like a caveman.

    Sleep, eat, exercise, love and ALWAYS use sunscreen.

    Impossible is Nothing

    PUA Brian Kinney

  18. I’m an older guy (49) who does day game and look nothing like my age, plus am into music and pop culture stuff that people half my age and younger are into, not from trying to act like a younger person, but because I just tend to get on way better with most people who are younger. It’s probably to do with not having any kids and never having married, as I don’t believe in legalised marriage.

    Even if you’re fit and regularly exercise, if you find out about pickup at an older age, you definitely need to work on mastering your inner game about 10 times more than what guys in their 20s and early 30s do.

    Even if you look after yourself, regularly exercise and look nothing like your age, day game for an older guy is quite challenging, in that unlike at night, most women are under a time constraint and/or have things to do, so it can be frustrating.

    This is probably why hardly any older guys do day game. I sometimes do it with wingmen who are much younger, but they don’t know my real age and I prefer to keep it that way, as they’d probably not want to go out with me, if I told them.

    I try approaching girls who look like they’re at least 20, but sometimes I approach ones, who when you look closer at them while they talk, are probably 18 or 19, but looked a bit older initially. With these girls and also with some in their early 20s, upon sensing that you’re not within 5 years of their age, they either soon get weirded out from not having been approached before and/or from not having good enough social skills to converse.

    These type of responses have nothing to do with me having screwed anything up, or having done the approach wrong, compared to girls who appreciate the compliment of me having gone direct in my approach and saying say they’re not interested and/or that they have a boyfriend.

    Women aged 35 and over who are reasonably attractive and look after themselves, are much harder to come across in the day.

  19. @ James

    Stop trolling. An 18/19/20 year old woman is not a child. In my country a person aged 18 and over is legally considered an adult. And there are many VYW out there that are really into guys in their 30’s or 40’s.

  20. Greg,

    Interesting comment. It matches my experience as well (I’m also over 40). Young men don’t realize how easy they have it with women. Their age alone generates attraction. All a young man has to do is optimize his physique and his clothing style, get out of his parents house, overcome approach anxiety, learn how to eliminate anti-game, approach approach approach, and be bold and physically aggressive. That’s it. If a young man does that and approaches 20+ girls a week, at the end of a couple of years he should have all the abundance he wants.

    For older men things get harder. You need both outer and inner game if you want young girls.

    I’m curious Greg, what type of success are you having with daygame, and with what type of girls? The only person in the PUA sphere that is 45+ and gets young women through game is the Lovesystems coach Jeff Bullet. Other than that, I have yet to see any examples of older guys pulling off daygame with younger women.

  21. Women aged 35 and over who are reasonably attractive and look after themselves, are much harder to come across in the day.

    I had to comment on this. F*ck, if this aint the truth. In American anyway. Its hard to find single women over 35 during the day. You just don’t encounter enough of them to make daygame work; because daygame is a numbers game. You’d have to hit on 10 of these women a week to give you good enough odds at getting laid with daygame. I do not see anywhere near 500 attractive 35+ single women during the day in a year’s time frame.

    That’s why I said in another comment that if when I was young I knew of direct stop daygame I would have approached the Eastern seaboard of the United States. It constantly amazes me how few young men actually do daygame. It is the easiest and cheapest form of game out there.

  22. Young men don’t realize how easy they have it with women. Their age alone generates attraction.

    I would argue their similar age generates comfort, not attraction. It’s simply the lack of a barrier, not a benefit.

  23. I would argue their similar age generates comfort, not attraction. It’s simply the lack of a barrier, not a benefit.

    You’re right in one sense, but I have heard many women describe how they feel a visceral attraction for young hot guys. One woman described it as if her “womb was crying out for him”. She showed me a picture of the guy. He was slightly above average in the face. But he was 23 and ripped and 6′ tall.

    Think of the way that you feel when you see that 18-23 year old hottie. Your body feels a stronger sexual attraction then if you were to see a really hot 35 year old MILF. Your body has cravings. I think its the same with women. That’s what I mean when I say youth has value in and of itself.

    Lastly, check out Krauser’s post on his 2013 lay statistics. Especially the comments. Alot there jibes with what I have seen regarding young women and young men. What you and Krauser are doing is enormously impressive, each in your own way and your own niche.

    But a 25 year old who is 6-8% body fat and 6′-6’4″ *and* game aware can put up numbers that older non-famous men just can’t. And if numbers aren’t your thing, that young ripped kid will be able to get the hot 8s 9s and 10s before the older guys if they are both competing for the same girl. That doesn’t mean older guys can’t get hot young girls. It just means that it is an order of magnitude harder.

  24. With hotter women aged 35 and over, who look after themselves and haven’t let themselves go (but who are pursued by guys in their age range and also by younger ones), they are around in the day if you have time to do day game, but you probably need to also do night game on Friday and Saturday nights and go to bars, clubs, as some do go to them with female friends.

    It may be pay based to be able to send messages out, but another avenue is the Cougar Life site. Put your age as younger, if you can get away with it.

    If using it, you better be a guy who looks after himself, has his shit together, follows a healthy diet, eschews all junk food, is fit and works out at least 4 times a week, as you’ll have competition with younger guys who are fit, work out and some of whom have 6 packs. I don’t have a 6 pack myself, which is basically 98% following a very strict diet and working out at least 5 days a week regularly.

    It’s surprising how incredibly badly written, the male profiles on CL are, after perusing them under a fake female profile, which is the only way to do so. I haven’t used CL, but I’m tempted to.

    I’ve messaged Jeff Bullet, but he charges $US 3000 for coaching for older guys, which is way too exobirtant.

  25. You’re right in one sense, but I have heard many women describe how they feel a visceral attraction for young hot guys.

    Empahsis on the word “hot”. I’m quite sure a a good-looking 40 year-old guy with six pack abs and a full head of hair (what few there are), wouldn’t have very much trouble with those younger women either. Some trouble, yes, but not very much.

    I’ve messaged Jeff Bullet, but he charges $US 3000 for coaching for older guys, which is way too exobirtant.

    I have strongly considered setting up a little side business that completely focuses on teaching over-40 guys how to date; younger women or otherwise. Clearly there is a market for this, and I wouldn’t have to charge $3000 either (thought I would still charge quite a bit). Oh, if only I had the time!

  26. There needs to be a video product, or a video series, like what the Asian American guys behind Simple Pickup – Project Go do in their stuff.

  27. As a 50+ yr old man, most of the women I see regularly are in the 18-25 age range. The reason for that is simple – they aren’t looking for anything long term, and neither am I. Now my “technique” is much different from what I employed when I was in my 20’s and 30’s. My biggest problem is making sure that the women meet the minimum age requirement of 18, since you cannot trust young women when they want something/someone.

    My biggest reason for not dating older women, is they invariably tend to want to pursue things from a more permanent perspective, which isn’t what I am looking for. So while there are some wonderful women out their who are older than 25, I have found that 25 tends to be the age at which they will start to argue to themselves that “this can work”. Of course, from their perspective, I have several businesses and a great income, I have education out the wazoo, and I meet their laundry list of things, that now that they are hitting the wall, they are starting to consider marriage as their number one priority – but it isn’t mine. I still want to enjoy life. When I am in my 60’s or when things stop working for me, maybe my views will change. But I cannot see myself ever subjecting myself to the marriage-grinder that is the US. I will more likely retire to some Asian country, and have a slew of kids with young women who do not seek marriage. And all I need is a DNA test to verify the kid is mine, and young willing women. As long as I get them in the US, I see no need to change my life. When I can not longer get them here, I will go where I can.

    Life is simple, it is people who complicate it.

  28. As a 50+ yr old man, most of the women I see regularly are in the 18-25 age range.

    Is your approach similar to mine? I.E. confident, non-direct online game? Or different?

  29. Good advice. I have a 22 year old roommate who parties pretty hard. He brought over some 19 year old chick with a bunch of his friends. After sitting with them for a while she plunked her but down right beside me and we got talking. She went to the bathroom and i didnt want to p.ss anyone off so i asked whos girlfriend she was. They said nobody. I asked if anyone was trying to get with her and they said no.

    She came back and i just hit her with it. “so i hear your single. Your cute whats your phone number”. She asked if i knew how old she was and i flatly said i didnt care but she could tell me if she wanted. She told me she was 19 and i said thats great whats your number. Half an hour later i asked her to kiss me and she did.

    My roommate and his buddies were floored at the speed and brutal efficiency with which this 37 year old guy closed in on this 19 year old.

    Then my roommate says hes going out with her in a few days and hes going to try to get with her. I say ok ill back off for a bit let me know how it goes. He comes back and says that theyre just going to be friends so i say okay fair game.

    Next week he again brings a bunch of friends and she shows up with them. Obviously my roommate is still trying to get with her, dragging her off alone. Whenever she hits the bathroom he asks me to come join them. I do, and the roommate keeps bringing her someplace else, or if its his room he asks me politely to leave after a while and i have no issue but its getting annoying the girl obviously is wanting on me.

    She even wakes me up later that night and has a smoke with me, then jumps into my bed. Tells me and my room mate that she wants to share my bed with me. Roommate again tries to get her away from me and gets her to go back into his room. Then she invites me to come along. Guy not getting the hint. Again after a bit he asks me for some privacy and i say no problem. Im chilling and girl comes back and says hes nearly asleep, when he falls asleep she will come and crawl into bed with me.

    She does. We bang three times. Cant remember the type in your chart but she openly admits she likes older guys and asks me for a FB arrangement, which i of course oblige. Says her problem is dudes she sleeps with fall in love with her and she has no interest in a relationship, the sex is just fun. Offers to dress up like a schoolgirl for me whole nine yards.

    The point of all this story is this. The roommates game was obviously way too mushy. I saw it before my very eyes. He was friendzoned probably the moment he tried. None of these younger dudes had the balls to make the straight up ask. I was like that back then. They also didnt recognize that this girl was just a party girl who wanted to get crazy sometimes. They were caught up thinking that they needed to get her to love them in order to f.uck them. In reality she doesnt want to be in love with anyone.

    Also, the speed and veracity with which i got her number and kissed her probably made the roommate this she was desperate or easy so he figured he would make a move afterwards. In reality once i land her number and kiss her theres no reason i should have to back off, he should have just moved onto another, but i knew what that girl was after and i figured she was just getting together with him and hanging out to get near me.

    She has a thing for older guys and she told me straight out.

    There are definitely girls like this out there. Thank god for that. :-)

  30. If an older guy wants to date younger women it is his right to do so and none of anyone else’s business. but I believe the only mistake older men made was DATING A YOUNG GIRL; many young girls want older men just for money and comfort and not out of sincere feelings for him. the older men often have money and wisdom they can give the young girls, but many of the young girls have nothing to offer but a self centered attitude, mistakenly thinking they are doing the “old man” a favor just by allowing him to be seen with her, but if he has the wisdom and money to spend on her, then he is in actuality the one doing her a favor. but most people in the rest of the world only see looks, so they would feel sorry for her and feel like he’s a lucky old geaser, not realizing that that young attractive woman is probably not even having sex with him often, or maybe not even at all, or not the kind of sex he even really enjoys, while in the mean time she gets fancy dinners at expensive restaurants, special treatment, in some cases diamond jewelry and her bills paid. then she will probably cheat on him or leave him for a young handsome man when she get’s bored and has drained him of enough of his money. Then the world will say: “what did that old slug think was going to happen, the nerve of him to try and use that poor girl’s youth up.”

  31. Pingback: 4 Errores Que Cometen Hombres Mayores Al Perseguir Mujeres Jóvenes | Bar de la Esquina

  32. Back again

    @ Alan Wright
    I totally disagree with you. Younger women with older guys arent just out for their money. The 19 year old I banged as described above didnt cost me a penny, well maybe a cigarette after she ran out.


    I’m now banging a 25 year old (12 years younger than I) and in the beginnings of a relationship with her.

    What she says she likes is:

    a. That I dont act jealous needy or insecure
    b. That I’m not all mushy and pushing to get serious too quickly or to get the label
    c. That I’m so relaxed about everything
    d. That I’m not prone to acting stupid or flying off the handle like the younger guys.

    She is a VYW Type 3. Never been with an older guy before, only guys within a year or two of her age. I actually picked her up at a bar day game at 3 in the afternoon on a Wednesday and she had a boyfriend (who is now history).

    Been having a blast.

  33. 43 attracted to 23 year old. Just hard to figure which type she is in herself. She’s mature beyond her years and have spent a little time hanging out on occasion and having text conversations , but mostly work related. Would a type 1 do this? Guess, I’ve been out if game too long to be able to read her

  34. Great advice. I am with a younger woman now for 11 years, married for 10, two little ones and two dogs. I broke the rule of keeping it casual. I was raised with the social and religious hangups that took me a lifetime to overcome. Surprised I dated as much as I did. I will say that this type dating is not generally typical of everyone and should not be misunderstood. Not everyone would be happy just as not everyone is happy being forced into other types of relationships. Try as I might I could not date women my own age and I dont like to be alone either lol. I was in amazing shape, well groomed, reasonably well employed in military but not a big player. In hindsight, dating years longer allowing her freedom to grow would have been better. The only bad thing I have to say after all this time is how difficult some people made our lives that did not approve. It was really all about them, others and they. It is a deep regret but our being together was just too amazing. It is still hard after all this time. I have often thought of moving to anywhere else in the world because it isnt such a big deal. I find women of all ages attractive so it really has been an enigma how leading up to my marriage younger women were there and available and the others were absent. I adore the mature, brainy, sensual type 2’s. Dating should never be a competition, ever because it makes people think we are insincere and toxic towards younger women. Also, if you have to part ways do your best to be graceful about it even if it has past that point. That will make a world of difference.

  35. My bf is 35 and likes to hang out with party girls who are 20. I am 25 and very hurt about his ongoing friendships with young ladies.

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